DId GOD actually write the Bible, or did He use Holy Ghost WRITERS?

"Didn't I just give you 7 different versions of the same verse from the Quran that were not word for word identical to any other copy?"



Okay. Let me clarify.

Muslims do not take ANY of the books you quoted from as *THE* HQ. They do not read from any of them in their religious services.

The HQ is the text in the original Arabic. That is the one Muslims recite from in their services, memorise letter for letter, and that's the one that is identically the same throughout the world.

So you have to be able to understand Arabic to understand what God wants you to do?
So when certain ones are killing each other or on their suicide missions against polytheist or others, we can rest assured that they all memorized the same book in the same language letter for letter? Too bad it hasn't brought them peace. 

You appear to have missed the points I made in my last post and instead raise new issues about:
how we get "to understand what God wants you to do"
and you use mysterious unspecified logic to equate Muslims who "memorized the same book in the same language letter for letter" with "certain ones are killing each other or on their suicide missions against polytheist or others" and appearing to conclude that's why "it hasn't brought them peace" I'm sure it must seem very simple and make perfect sense to you. It doesn't to me, I'm afraid. I'd need to see the logical connections.


Anyway, if we develop what I said in my last post a step further we can see that a Muslim in any part of the world can walk into any Muslim bookstore and the HQ he buys from that bookstore will be word for word identical to the HQ that another person buys from any other bookstore anywhere else in the world.

But can they walk in to a Mosque of the same sect in any part of the world and be welcomed, even if his Country is at war with the Country he visits? If yes, why did you once tell me that Sunni have killed more Sunni than Shiite and more Shiite have killed more Shiite than Sunni?
What is the usual criteria for Muslims killing Muslims? The Catholic 'Just War' or something else?

When it comes to Islam most of the mainstream media appears able to addresses only the Islamophobes and the intellectually challenged. It can't say or discuss anything about Islam and Muslims unless it has to do with violence. That's the limit of its intellect on the subject of Islam and Muslims. It appears that your ability to discuss Islam and Muslims is similarly limited so I shan't bother explaining, yet again.

However, if your understanding is broader about the Bible, then we can discuss and compare notes on that. I can see beyond the violence.

EDIT: you're ability changed to your ability
your understand changed to your understanding




This post was edited by CLURT at October 3, 2017 1:17 PM MDT

The media? I was going off what you said when I had brought out wars between Shiite and Sunni and you said that Sunni have killed more Sunni than Shiite and more Shiite have killed more Shiite than Sunni.

As I said "It appears that your ability to discuss Islam and Muslims is similarly limited" - to repeating the same worn out cliches about violence.

I am just trying to understand the superiority of the Quran over the Bible and the uniting of all Muslims by requiring all of them to be able to memorize the Quran in Arabic. How has it benefited them? Is all of them living peaceable with and loving one another unreasonable?

"I am just trying to understand the superiority of the Quran over the Bible" ------------- you must be a supremacist then.


I don't set out seeking superiority. I like simplicity, common sense and credibility and I try to find out what God and Jesus are reported to have actually said/taught in the Bible and see if they support any of the major Christian doctrines.

Okay, so all of your taunts about the Bible being changed and contradictory, and the things that Jesus said that you say he wouldn't have said at the time he said it and all of your comments about how the Bible has been changed and in comparison how the Quran is unchanged and consistent and reasonable and... somehow doesn't mean that you understand the Quran to be superior to the Bible. 

I know that you have a way of twisting things to say what they don't say so please say in plain understandable words that the Quran is not superior to the Bible.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/superior

We're going back to ground we've already covered. Here's what I said "I don't set out seeking superiority. I like simplicity, common sense and credibility and I try to find out what God and Jesus are reported to have actually said/taught in the Bible and see if they support any of the major Christian doctrines."

Quote: "I don't think that the Christian scholars who have looked at older manuscripts and found evidence of tampering with Bible text are in any way taunting anyone when they report on their findings."

Through textual criticism they can tell what was original compared to what has been found out to be spurious. YOU claim that everything that doesn't line up with YOUR teachings is tampered with.

"YOU claim that everything that doesn't line up with YOUR teachings is tampered with." ----------------- I think there'll have to come a time when I stop refuting lies about what I said or claimed. Maybe now is that time.

"So then why can't you say it: I know that you have a way of twisting things to say what they don't say so please say in plain understandable words that the Quran is not superior to the Bible." ------------ seriously? Are you sure you don't want a statement signed on oath? 

You put a question mark on "inspired by God himself?" Perhaps that's because some authors say upfront that the words they’re writing are theirs not God’s. For example, Paul after writing, "To the married people I give instructions, yet not I but the Lord . . ." (at 1 Corinthians 7:10) two verses later (at 1 Corinthians 7:12) he says, "But to the others I say, yes, I, not the Lord . . ." Regarding his Gospel, Luke said: "I resolved also . . . to write . . ." (Luke 1:1- 4) instead of something like "I was inspired also . . . to write . . ."

For the second part of your question, consider this:
"The apostle could not quote a direct teaching of the Lord Jesus Christ on the points under discussion and therefore expressed his “opinion.” However, he wrote under the direction of God’s spirit and so his opinion had divine guidance and expressed God’s own view. This is confirmed by the fact that the apostle Peter grouped Paul’s letters along with the rest of the Scriptures in saying: “Consider the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul according to the wisdom given him also wrote you, speaking about these things as he does also in all his letters. In them, however, are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unsteady are twisting, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.”—2 Pet. 3:15, 16."

1. If we apply "he wrote under the direction of God’s spirit" to 1 Corinthians 7:10 we can see that Paul appears to confirm this by saying "yet not I but the Lord" meaning  that although it was he who gave instructions to the  married people "he wrote [them] under the direction of God’s spirit"

2. If we apply "he wrote under the direction of God’s spirit" to what Paul said at 1 Corinthians 7:12 then it must indeed be "yes, I [Paul], not the Lord . . ." because "he wrote the words "not the Lord" under the direction of God’s spirit" So God's spirit is confirming that they are from Paul and not from the Lord.

3. The same argument applies to Luke's assertion at the beginning of his Gospel that he "resolved also . . . to write . . ." So God's spirit is confirming that Luke was not inspired also to write, but that it was he himself who "resolved also . . . to write "

Maybe you just better stick to the Quran and pray that you don't end up on the wrong side of a political leaning than one of your brothers or in the wrong country from one of your brothers.

Looks like you eat, sleep and drink the subject of the violence that is unfolding around us, and nothing else besides. So perhaps you know best how many have died from the various types of killings taking place - suicide bombings, beheadings, aerial bombings, missiles, drones, tanks etc

Why don't you go back and look at most of the threads where there is mention of the Bible or someone mentions a verse and you responded to it. You constantly attack the validity of the Bible and say things like how the Quran is soooo superior yet you have nothing to say as to how it has done anything for it's adherents, especially in relation to love of neighbor which would exclude all the bloodshed within Islam. I know that anyone can claim to follow the teachings of Muhammad just as anyone can claim to follow Christ. Is there any sect of Islam that is doing that correctly? Did Muhammad say that many would falsely claim to follow him or Allah that really were not and how to tell who really are? Shiites? Sunni? Someone else? Care to say which branch you follow or the division of the Mosque you go to?

You didn't write the Bible or any part of it, yet if any opinion regarding the Bible is expressed and is different from yours then you regard it as an attack on the Bible. You've got a big problem there. Why, even the Gospels don't agree with one another exactly in their story about the same person.

I don't align myself with any Christian or Muslim sect or group. If someone ascribes a teaching, belief or doctrine to Jesus or the HQ then I check it out for myself and ask the person to shed more light on their claim. I'm not the gatekeeper of Islam or Christianity so I don't say to anyone who claims to be a Muslim or Christian that they are not. 

Wrong, when trinitarians express a different interpretation than the context actually call for or something different than mine, I don't regard it as an attack on the Bible. YOU are constantly trying to demean the apostle Paul and the Bible itself. You don't try to understand when something appears as a difficulty, you automatically respond by trying to cast doubt on the Bible and the Bible writers themselves.

So if your last sentence is true, I guess you wan't be playing the numbers game anymore in saying there are over a billion Muslims or that they all are reading the same Quran in Arabic or that they all memorize it.

So if the Catholics refuse to listen to your arguments in defence of your beliefs in the Bible that's fine by you but if I listen to your arguments and explain why I can't accept your view of the Bible then it's an attack on the Bible. I see your problem.

From your second paragraph it would seem it's okay if you read elsewhere the fact that there are over one billion Muslims around the world or that they all read the same Qur'an in Arabic or that millions of them memorize it word for word, but it troubles you if those facts appear in my posts.

Hmmm sounds like someone wants to have a say in what I should and should not post.

Your attacks on the Bible have nothing to do with a specific view of mine, so don't pretend that you accept the Bible but just no my interpretation. Bit of a difference.
Quote: {Perhaps that's because some authors say upfront that the words they’re writing are theirs not God’s. For example, Paul after writing, "To the married people I give instructions, yet not I but the Lord . . ." (at 1 Corinthians 7:10) two verses later (at 1 Corinthians 7:12) he says, "But to the others I say, yes, I, not the Lord . . ." Regarding his Gospel, Luke said: "I resolved also . . . to write . . ." (Luke 1:1- 4) instead of something like "I was inspired also . . . to write . . ."}

Has nothing to do with what I read elsewhere. You have used the numbers game in how many Muslims bow in the same direction, how many say the same required amount of prayers at the same time, how many Muslims give the same greeting that Jesus would have used, how many Muslims do this or that as some sort of litmus test as to serving God.

I don't care what you post but when you attack the Bible sometimes you are going to be challenged on your hypocrisy.