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my2cents

Should a business be accountable for criminal actions on and outside of their property?

We have a lot of violence around convenience stores and gas stations,” Mayor Jones said of St. Louis. “So how can we hold those business owners accountable and also bring down crime? Some of the things we’re already doing, we’re finding that other mayors are doing as well."

(Added) St. Louis Mayor Tishaura Jones says she’s taking back strategies used in Atlanta for nightclub owners and eyeing ways to reduce crimes around convenience stores.

https://www.actionnews5.com/2024/03/29/black-mayors-coalition-crime-wraps-up-first-set-meetings/
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Posted - March 29
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Responses


  • 9916
    I could not find anything more than this quote after looking at multiple sources, with the exception of linking it to Atlanta crackdown on violent crime in nightclubs. Apparently, Atlanta has laws about shutting down nightclubs where multiple violent crimes occur, under some kind of public nuisance law.

    I am posting this for information only. I have absolutely zero opinion on whether or not this is a viable solution. There would have to be a lot more context before I would feel educated enough to comment. Certainly on the surface it seems unfair, but on the other hand, providing cover to criminal activity seems wrong, too. 

    I try not to get outraged nor defensive about things until I have the complete picture. 
      March 30, 2024 6:43 AM MDT
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  • 32718
    The only other thing she said is about GA nightclubs laws making them responsible
    That is all she said....I added it above. 

    But should business owners be responsible for crimes on their property?  (Regardless of what she said)


      March 30, 2024 7:14 AM MDT
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  • 9916
    Perhaps. Not for the actual crime, of course, but for creating conditions where make it easy to commit a crime. Like the parents who did nothing to make it harder for their son to shoot up a school. But as I said, I  haven't yet formed an opinion.
      March 30, 2024 8:33 AM MDT
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  • 32718
    I can see if the owner/employees are involved somehow but otherwise I see no way to do that.   
    There are loitering laws but St Louis Mayor probably would consider those as nuisance calls. 
      March 30, 2024 8:55 AM MDT
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  • 9916
    Yep. Really need to know what they had in mind. It could also make businesses reluctant to call the cops on a crime in progress if they will be blamed. But if they're thinking about say, better lighting in the parking lot or surveillancecameras, they might have a point. I think they were talking mostly about violent crime..
      March 30, 2024 10:34 AM MDT
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  • 2783
    I'm not sure how you can hold a convenience store owner or gas station owner responsible if someone or a group comes in and robs the place.  If you limit the hours of operation to daylight hours, you are penalizing the owners for something outside their control and it doesn't mean that hoodlums will not then rob these places at earlier hours when possible more innocent people will be there.

    As for nightclubs, most fights probably start because of patrons consuming too much alcohol.  Most clubs have bouncers who will remove the fight to the street, at which point, perhaps they should be required to call the police.  Here in NYC, I believe a bar that continues to serve a patron drinks knowing that they are already drunk, can be held liable for any damage or harm done.
      March 30, 2024 8:39 AM MDT
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  • 32718
    I do not either.   It is one thing if the owner or even employees are involved in some sort of criminal activity at work.  But other than that I do not see how either. 
    I have seen a convince store near a high school that only allowed 2 minors in the store at a time because of shop lifting.  All of the kids that smoked had to be at so far from the school while smoking which put most of them at that store parking lot.  It was a Hucks station.   The locals called them Hucksters. 
      March 30, 2024 8:51 AM MDT
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  • 2783
    We agree here (surprise surprise!).  
      March 30, 2024 8:55 AM MDT
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  • 32718
    Imagine that.  It does happen sometimes.  
    Maybe a late Purim and early Resurrection SonDay miracle.  
      March 30, 2024 8:57 AM MDT
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  • 2783
    Maybe Passover. :)
      March 30, 2024 9:11 AM MDT
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  • 17420
    No.  The business owner can and should call law enforcement to enforce the law, including loitering.
      March 30, 2024 3:06 PM MDT
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